April 23, 2026
Ep 19 - Damien Mulley - Start-Up Programme Manager at UCC
In this episode of the Founders & Funding Podcast, Philip Smith speaks with Damien Mulley, Start-Up Programme Manager at UCC Innovation.
Damien shares what it really looks like to support early-stage founders coming straight out of university, the funding routes available to student startups, and what separates the founders who make progress from those who stay stuck. They discuss the importance of getting paying customers early, how to pitch to investors, and why communication might be the most underrated skill in any founding team.
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Hi, welcome to the Founders and
Funding podcast.
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I'm your host, Philip Smith.
On the podcast, I'll be
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interviewing founders,
investors, startup advisors on
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how to fund the journey of your
startup and some tips and advice
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they have for you along the way.
This podcast is sponsored by
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Perfect Technologies and
Leighton.
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Enjoy the episode.
Hi, Damien, welcome to the
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Founders and Funding podcast.
Thank you, nice to be here.
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It's nice to have you here,
Damien, to kick us off.
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Could you tell me a bit about
your company and your role?
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Yeah, I'm, I work for UCC
Innovation.
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So I'm startup program manager
for UCC Innovation.
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And one of the programs I work
on is Ignite.
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So we're an incubation program
for recent graduates from any
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Irish university, and we have
recent graduates and also on
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campus we have UH students who
have maybe business ideas and we
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help them to maybe turn it into
reality.
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Fantastic and Damon, just for
listeners who might not be
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familiar, what is UCC?
UCC is University College Cork,
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so it's one of the the oldest
universities in Ireland and it
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would have maybe about 25,000
students on various programs
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full time and part time
undergraduate and postgraduate.
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And there might be in the region
about 3000 staff that supports
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those students and we're based
in Cork.
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I've not mentioned I'm from Cork
yet.
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Now imagine I'm from Cork.
That's very important when
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you're from Cork, it has to be
it.
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Is you have to get it in the
first sentence.
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Yeah, If I was from Cork, I'd
I'd be doing that as well.
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And and what does average day
look like right now for you?
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So for me, we every every couple
of months we bring new startups
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onto our program.
So this week actually we brought
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a couple of new starts onto the
program.
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So it was all start for them.
So an average day for me would
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be coordinating with trainers,
with workshop facilitators, with
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guest speakers and then working
with our existing startups and
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our new startups on getting
their ideas into shape and turn
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them into reality.
And this week as well is a very
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packed week because as well as
you start starting the program,
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we have our awards and showcase
on Thursday.
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So we're coordinating that we'll
have a couple of 100 people
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seeing our startups pitch and
there is an award show as well
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for best business plan and best
idea.
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So it's every day is is quite
different.
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Tuesdays and Wednesdays would be
where all the workshops and
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guest speakers come in.
And then the rest of the days
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would be again coordinating with
the startups and coordinating
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with trainers and speakers and
mentors and investors.
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Fantastic.
That sounds really exciting.
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And is there, I suppose, do you
find, I was thinking here in
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terms of the steps that have
been found at the university?
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Is it mostly from undergrad or
postgrad students?
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Is a combination of all the
above?
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So what we we get is we get
students that might have just
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graduated, they've been working
an idea maybe in second and
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third year and 4th year.
Sometimes it's a project if
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they're doing a post grad.
So they could be doing, say a
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master's and it might come from
that.
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And sometimes it's from people
that might have graduated a
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couple of years back and they,
they've gone into industry.
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But there was always something,
I guess kind of nudging at them
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in their brain.
And then say over Christmas or
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over an Easter, they go, you
know what, I'm going to take
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that leap now.
I've been in the industry.
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I've got this idea.
I think now is the time to do
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it.
And so they come in to us and we
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we have a couple of meetings and
then we might recommend them
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joining the program.
And then they pitch the idea to
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a panel of our advisors and our
mentors.
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We might invite them to come
onto the program then.
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So we see, we see sometimes the
journey of an undergraduate and
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as they graduate, then they
might want to join the program.
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Or sometimes people have heard
of us through careers offices or
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just from friends and family,
and they can come onto the
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program too.
Yeah, it's just really
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interesting.
Just it really excites me that
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university kind of start up
scene and find out how it works,
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because I've seen a lot of great
serfs coming from, from
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universities and I regret myself
not having taken that
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opportunity at the time.
But it's good to hear a lot of a
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lot of students are.
And how has UCC helped startups
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with how to fund their their
journey?
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How have they opened that part
of the journey for startups?
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So there's there's, there's a
couple of things actually.
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So 1 is we have two programs
during the year for, for
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existing students on the grads
and post grads called Startup
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Lab.
And at the end of startup Lab,
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we actually have prize money to
help you with your startup idea.
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So there's Dash.
Then there's also we run a
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student award program.
So there's 10 to €15,000 in
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prize money for, again, best
idea, best start up idea.
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So you get funding that way.
We encourage people then to
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apply for the Enterprise Ireland
Student Startup Awards as well.
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That can be another way of
funding it.
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We also encourage people to get
their idea and get selling.
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So the most important thing
really for a startup is revenue.
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I mean, an idea is great and
iterating out and iterating on
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it is great, but it's, it's
getting funding to and then we
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are supported by the local
enterprise offices here in Cork.
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And so they have various funding
routes from feasibility studies
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to priming grants to maybe
expansion grants.
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And we work with the startups
and the local enterprise offices
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to get funding that way.
And then there's additional
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funding from, say, Angel
investors, and we work with
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them.
And there are then private
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investors that come to our
events, like the showcase that
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we're having this week.
And then sometimes some of the
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people that have been on the
Ignite program end up becoming
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high potential startups with
Enterprise Ireland.
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So an example recently would be
Dura Bell America.
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Sullivan was on the date
program.
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He was a postgraduate doing a
PhD.
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The idea came from there,
finished postgraduate, finished
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a PhD, came to Ignite, worked
with Ignite, got various funding
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routes there and eventually then
worked with Enterprise Ireland.
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So there is, I guess, a lot of
funding routes.
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And also we really encourage
students and startups to just
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enter all the various startup
competitions that are out there.
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There's loads there and these
can be all nice little bits of
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money to keep you going and keep
you motivated.
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And it's also good if you don't
win the prize.
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It's a very good way of
networking and you can find
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partners, customers or potential
investors there.
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Yeah, I I really like that.
I think it's great to introduce
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uh, students and uh, founders to
local offices, enterprise
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relevant and diverse mechanisms
and grants there.
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But I think there is, there is a
really kind of unique
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opportunity, uh, for students to
look at those, umm, or say those
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kind of hackathons and those,
uh, prizes and the kind of
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those, uh, targeted, umm, grants
and loans for them as well,
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which uh, only they can avail
of.
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Uh, but I think it's, there's a
lot, there's a lot of, I think
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students and founders don't know
where to start.
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So I think UCC is really kind of
sounds like they're really
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filling that kind of gap of
educate and showing them where
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to go.
We do, we actually give specific
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kind of other seminars and
modules and all the ways that
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you can get money for your start
up idea.
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And we we have a fantastic bunch
of students at the moment that
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as you said are going to the
hackathons, they're going to the
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Hackathon Europe.
They've been winning
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competitions locally in Cork, in
Ireland and in Europe as well.
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And there's there's something I
think has changed in the past
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couple of years.
I do think it's the influence of
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maybe quarter Dojo and other
programs that we're actually
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seeing the effects of that now
where students are coming in and
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they have that start mentality
even before they come to UCC.
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And so they have a running
start.
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And so we've seen first years
doing very well at the moment in
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second years and that starts to
feed into Ignite as well.
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So there's, there's a lot of
stuff happening and I think
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there's a lot of students taking
that leap and just trying stuff
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out.
And so it's, it's probably
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easier, especially with funding
from the likes of Amazon and
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other companies as well and say
Claude where you give them
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tokens or giving hosting.
So it's much easier to become a
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startup and then just pitch and
win all those prizes.
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Yeah, I've seen, you know,
companies get more involved, but
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it is great like it seems like
the founders getting younger and
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younger and the other starting
earlier and there's a much more
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kind of a entrepreneurship
driven culture I think that's
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happening at.
But you know, UCC is no small
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part of that to to be pushing
that forward.
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And I suppose more generally,
Damon, what is the best way to
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fund a startup sharing in your
opinion?
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For me, I think it's it's
bootstrapping, it's seeing all
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the resources out there and use
as much as possible.
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Say for example, Ignite, when
someone starts in the program,
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there's a stipend is when you
start off, there's a stipend
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sale of €5000 to to help you.
You've got desk space as well in
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UCC.
So you're not paying rent,
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you're not paying electricity.
You've got your, your free
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Internet connection and UCC,
Bing University has really good
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Internet connections.
So all those small little costs,
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I guess are out of the way.
And then we do encourage as
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quickly as possible to get
paying customers because that
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validates you.
It gets you used to dealing with
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money and expenses.
We, we give workshops and
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seminars around financial
projections and looking after
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your money.
And when we then put you in
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front of VCs or investors, they
can see that you're earning
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money and you couldn't, you can
actually make money.
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And then the local enterprise
offices as well, like that whole
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idea that you can actually
generate revenue.
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I mean, sometimes people have an
idea and they're working on the
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idea and they're, they're two
years into it and they're still
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working on the idea.
There's a maybe a fear of
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actually open armed jumping in,
seeing what's going to happen.
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But once I think you start
generating even a small bit of
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revenue, like two or three
paying customers, we have
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someone on the program, they're
only on the program a couple of
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months at this stage and they've
already got paying customers and
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it's great validation for
themselves and paying customers.
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Sometimes they love startups and
they advocate strongly for you.
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So some of those paying
customers get you more paying
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customers.
And once again, there's there's
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money coming in.
It becomes easier maybe for
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investors to happily give you
funding or invest in you.
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Yeah, I really agree with that.
I think and a lot of fun
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founders kind of waited for the
perfect time before they, you
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know, they want to take on
customers, they want to go to
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market.
But I think if you can get some
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early customers and especially
if those customers understand
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that these are students or it's
a young company, it's a startup
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and you know, often with these
software's, you know, the price
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point isn't allowed either.
So I think it's good to see, you
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know, getting those initial
customers was good to see
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companies going to taking a bit
of a risk or even a small risk
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on these setups to support them.
And particularly if Irish
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companies can do that, I think
it's very important.
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I'd agree.
And we, we've had guest speakers
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in so say Becky Popova from
everywhere English and she was
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saying to our startups that use
the fact that you're a startup
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and you're just starting it in a
way you, they're more forgiving,
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they're more patient with you.
And people love the underdog,
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Irish people, Irish culture
loves the underdog.
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And they'll back you the back,
the small company way more.
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As they said, they're more
forgiving than maybe a
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professional outfit that might
have boogie software.
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If you have boogie software,
they'll, they're going look,
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you're, you're new, you're going
to fix it.
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That's OK.
So huge advantages of, of being
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a startup and getting something
that's not perfect, but again,
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done is better than perfect.
Just get it out there.
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Paying customers will, because
you're paying will give you good
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strong feedback and that helps
you out as well to make a better
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product.
And they're there in a way.
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They're advocates for you.
It's fantastic.
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Yeah, I think if more syrups can
do that, I think would be a
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great thing for them.
And to look at the phone in
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Teams Epidemic, what are the
best skills you've seen from new
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founders that's maybe helping
them to be successful?
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I actually think it's
resilience.
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It's being able to listen.
Umm, this whole idea of getting
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out of the office, getting out
of the building is really
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important.
Going out and meeting people,
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being able to be curious.
Umm, what we do in Ignite is we,
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we have alumni come in every
couple of weeks and give a guest
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talk.
And what the alumni, they always
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say is talk to more people.
If they had their time again, it
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would be get out of the office
more, talk to more people and
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just listen and being able to
modify their idea.
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I think some people go in and
they, they have a strong idea to
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have a strong idea of what the
solution is and they're not
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willing to make any changes.
But if you're open to making
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changes once you have informed
data, then that's that's the
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best quality.
It's resilience as being
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curious, open to other ideas and
then making those changes.
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And then speed is the other
thing.
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It's get it out there as I was
like, I'm probably repeating
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myself too much, but it's it's
execution of an idea and getting
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it out and then making
modifications to it.
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Oh, I think it's good.
You know, I think it's important
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to make that message clear
because I think a lot of startup
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founders, umm, they are that
they're not, they're not trying
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to, you know, as you put it,
they're kind of done as better
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than perfect.
They're trying to achieve
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perfection.
The perfection doesn't exist and
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you can end up chasing your tail
for years doing that.
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And I'm getting that, you know,
get no one speaking to nobody.
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So I think it's a very important
highlight that.
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No, we, we, we actually, we have
like a performance coach who
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actually works with say GA teams
and sports teams and works with
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our startups.
And it's the idea again around
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resilience and blockers.
And a big thing is just getting
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people to be, I guess, more,
more liquid in what they're
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doing and not just keeping the
original idea and not making any
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changes to it.
So we, we're always working with
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our guys through that and we, we
see almost like moments every
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now and again in the problem or
someone goes, yeah, look, I had
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this idea and I wasn't, I wasn't
changing my idea.
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I was not going to change.
But from listening to other
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people and just thinking about
it more, I've now moved on to a
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different space or I've pivoted
ever so slightly.
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And there's so much delight when
people have that like just I
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guess self reflection piece and
the energy that that's created
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as a result of that means people
start moving faster and getting
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out there again and getting
paying customers.
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Yeah, I think it's a it's a bit
of a self fulfilling prophecy.
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If you can get yourself out,
dispute to customers, get the
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feedback, umm, you know, make
kind of makes you want to move
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faster and move forward and not,
uh, not start when it shows
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perfection as well.
And how can companies attract
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investors effectively, do you
think, Damien?
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This is this is the the
communications thing.
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It's it's having less than 10
sides talking about the problem,
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talking about the solution that
you're creating and talking
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about the market.
Like what investors want to know
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00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:48,960
is OK, are you exciting the
problem?
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They probably all know the
problem.
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00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:52,560
When you go to and go, yeah,
yeah, there is a problem.
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00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:55,680
What is your solution?
What is unique, your unique
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solution and, and how are we
going to go around creating that
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solution?
And then how are we going to
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scale it?
So a lot of it is investors want
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to know how you think, how you
plan, how you execute and can
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they back that person And you,
you see it with, with pivots
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happening that investors will
stay with the company even if
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they change the original
solution.
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They're, they're backing people
and they're backing, I guess the
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00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:30,040
mentality of the people or the,
the resilience that's built in,
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00:17:30,120 --> 00:17:34,200
in those people.
So you have to be able to
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00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:39,320
clearly explain in a single
PowerPoint slide maybe what the
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00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:41,800
problem is, what your solution
is going to be.
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And then it's why you should
back me in particular compared
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to other people.
And that's about how well you
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00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:52,640
understand the problem where
you're going to go to by
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creating the solution.
And then how are you going to
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make money out of it as well?
I, I, again, we go back to the,
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the money and the funding thing.
But sometimes that's where
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people let themselves down is
fantastic.
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You're creating a solution, but
where are you going to get the
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money?
Is, is someone going to pay for
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it?
How are you going to, to get
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people to pay for it?
And again, what the return for
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00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:19,880
the investors are going to be?
Yeah, I think, I think he said
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00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:23,080
something interesting there as
well about umm, when founders
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00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:25,560
are, you know, they're pitching
to talk about why me or other
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00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:27,200
people.
I think that's actually, I think
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00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:29,480
often they give a bit of ACV
kind of, but they don't actually
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00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:32,760
say why me or other people or
why am I the person to fix this
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00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:34,960
problem.
I think that's umm, you know,
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00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:36,960
showing their resilience and
showing their qualities.
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00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:39,680
I think is, uh, is what
something investors not going to
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00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:40,920
say enough?
Yeah.
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00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:44,040
And it, it does come down to
communication skills.
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And sometimes it can be quite
hard for people because they
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00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:52,000
could be quite introverted and
again, they just want to code,
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00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:53,480
they don't want to talk to
people.
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00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:58,600
And sometimes This is why having
a Co founder that maybe has more
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00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:01,120
of the communication skills.
And you can, you can still be
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00:19:01,120 --> 00:19:04,600
the CTO if you want to, but
someone in the organization
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00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:07,800
needs to it.
And it's not like like a sharp
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00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:09,400
salesperson or anything like
that.
335
00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:12,960
It's just someone that can
communicate things easily to
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00:19:13,360 --> 00:19:15,720
investors.
Again, I'll talk about, say,
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00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:18,480
Marco Sullivan from Nurbel when
he came in to talk to her stars
338
00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:21,800
recently and he talked about
having different slide decks for
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00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:25,040
different audiences.
And so for investors, it's
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00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:29,320
clearly explaining stuff that
investors want to know about or
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00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:32,040
say, if it's working with the
likes of Enterprise Ireland, it
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00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:34,400
could be a different slide deck,
slightly different language.
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00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:37,640
So you, you have to in a way, I
think they call it code
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00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:40,680
switching, where you, you speak
differently to different
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00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:43,320
audiences.
And you need someone in a
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00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:45,680
starter that can do that, that
can talk to the tech people,
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00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:48,760
maybe that can talk to
investors, that can talk to
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00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:52,640
people say like the people that
run an incubator and you can
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00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:57,000
speak their language as well.
So being a, being a good
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00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:59,840
communicator, I think is, is
really, really important for
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00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:03,440
startups.
And that happens, you see, when
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00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:06,440
some people don't do well, it's
because they're not actually,
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they're doing fantastic work,
but they're not able to expand
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it to people.
And if people yes, get it, it's
355
00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:13,560
because probably it's a
communications thing more than
356
00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:16,840
anything else.
Yeah, it's, it's kind of a sad
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00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:19,240
reality that you could fix, you
know, a huge problem with a
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00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:20,760
great solution.
But if you can't communicate
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that to people, then no one's
going to learn about it or want
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to use it.
And before we finish up, Damian,
361
00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:31,160
if you to give one key piece of
advice to share on fun in a
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00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:42,240
startup, what would it be?
It would be having a so there is
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00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:49,080
an opportunity in every
interaction you have with
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00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:50,920
someone.
They might be an investor, but
365
00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:52,360
they might know someone that's
an investor.
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They might be someone that can
buy into.
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SO having a pitch ready to go if
it's speaking to someone in an
368
00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:03,560
like literally speaking to
someone in an elevator, for
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00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:06,480
example, or bumped into someone.
Like I bumped into someone in a
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00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:08,280
coffee shop recently and they
were asking about the Ignite
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00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:11,720
program and they were interested
in maybe coming in and giving a
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00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:14,600
talk.
So having a pitch deck ready to
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e-mail.
So have it in a draft in like in
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your e-mail account on like so
you can access on your phone you
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00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:24,120
can send on to people or having
one or two slides ready to go.
376
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:28,280
I think having that kind of
material is is my main tip is
377
00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:32,760
once you make a connection send
follow up straight away with
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00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:35,560
that connection and have a slide
deck or something ready to to
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00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,480
send people.
Yeah, I think that's really good
380
00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:40,760
advice.
Umm, to finish off a lot of
381
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:43,200
great advice that you gave
Damien, uh, thanks so much for
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00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:45,160
coming on.
Uh, it was a real pleasure.
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00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:48,880
And, uh, you're obviously doing
fantastic work at ECC and, uh,
384
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,840
excited to see Errol more about
the startup start emerging from
385
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:53,920
there.
I appreciate your time.
386
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:55,920
Thank you, Philip.
Thanks, Damien.
387
00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:01,520
Hi, Thanks for listening to this
week's episode of the Founders
388
00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:04,000
and Funding podcast.
If you'd like to be a guest or
389
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:06,080
have a guest suggestion, please
get in touch.
390
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:07,120
Thank you.
00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:03,480
Hi, welcome to the Founders and
Funding podcast.
2
00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:06,040
I'm your host, Philip Smith.
On the podcast, I'll be
3
00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:09,840
interviewing founders,
investors, startup advisors on
4
00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:13,520
how to fund the journey of your
startup and some tips and advice
5
00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:17,120
they have for you along the way.
This podcast is sponsored by
6
00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:19,160
Perfect Technologies and
Leighton.
7
00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:24,400
Enjoy the episode.
Hi, Damien, welcome to the
8
00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:27,800
Founders and Funding podcast.
Thank you, nice to be here.
9
00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:31,000
It's nice to have you here,
Damien, to kick us off.
10
00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:33,360
Could you tell me a bit about
your company and your role?
11
00:00:34,160 --> 00:00:37,800
Yeah, I'm, I work for UCC
Innovation.
12
00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:40,800
So I'm startup program manager
for UCC Innovation.
13
00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:43,520
And one of the programs I work
on is Ignite.
14
00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:48,360
So we're an incubation program
for recent graduates from any
15
00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:52,920
Irish university, and we have
recent graduates and also on
16
00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:57,880
campus we have UH students who
have maybe business ideas and we
17
00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:00,560
help them to maybe turn it into
reality.
18
00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:05,400
Fantastic and Damon, just for
listeners who might not be
19
00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:10,160
familiar, what is UCC?
UCC is University College Cork,
20
00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:14,760
so it's one of the the oldest
universities in Ireland and it
21
00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:18,760
would have maybe about 25,000
students on various programs
22
00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:22,320
full time and part time
undergraduate and postgraduate.
23
00:01:22,320 --> 00:01:26,160
And there might be in the region
about 3000 staff that supports
24
00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:28,200
those students and we're based
in Cork.
25
00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:30,040
I've not mentioned I'm from Cork
yet.
26
00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:33,720
Now imagine I'm from Cork.
That's very important when
27
00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:35,280
you're from Cork, it has to be
it.
28
00:01:35,320 --> 00:01:37,280
Is you have to get it in the
first sentence.
29
00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:40,960
Yeah, If I was from Cork, I'd
I'd be doing that as well.
30
00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:44,640
And and what does average day
look like right now for you?
31
00:01:45,960 --> 00:01:50,920
So for me, we every every couple
of months we bring new startups
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00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:54,240
onto our program.
So this week actually we brought
33
00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:55,920
a couple of new starts onto the
program.
34
00:01:55,920 --> 00:02:01,720
So it was all start for them.
So an average day for me would
35
00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:08,919
be coordinating with trainers,
with workshop facilitators, with
36
00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:13,440
guest speakers and then working
with our existing startups and
37
00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:18,760
our new startups on getting
their ideas into shape and turn
38
00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:21,720
them into reality.
And this week as well is a very
39
00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:24,960
packed week because as well as
you start starting the program,
40
00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:27,360
we have our awards and showcase
on Thursday.
41
00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:30,160
So we're coordinating that we'll
have a couple of 100 people
42
00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:35,000
seeing our startups pitch and
there is an award show as well
43
00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:37,120
for best business plan and best
idea.
44
00:02:37,640 --> 00:02:41,640
So it's every day is is quite
different.
45
00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:44,680
Tuesdays and Wednesdays would be
where all the workshops and
46
00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:48,240
guest speakers come in.
And then the rest of the days
47
00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:51,160
would be again coordinating with
the startups and coordinating
48
00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:56,560
with trainers and speakers and
mentors and investors.
49
00:02:58,040 --> 00:02:59,640
Fantastic.
That sounds really exciting.
50
00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:03,680
And is there, I suppose, do you
find, I was thinking here in
51
00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:06,040
terms of the steps that have
been found at the university?
52
00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:10,080
Is it mostly from undergrad or
postgrad students?
53
00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:11,960
Is a combination of all the
above?
54
00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:19,360
So what we we get is we get
students that might have just
55
00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:23,440
graduated, they've been working
an idea maybe in second and
56
00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:27,080
third year and 4th year.
Sometimes it's a project if
57
00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:30,120
they're doing a post grad.
So they could be doing, say a
58
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master's and it might come from
that.
59
00:03:32,920 --> 00:03:34,960
And sometimes it's from people
that might have graduated a
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couple of years back and they,
they've gone into industry.
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00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:42,240
But there was always something,
I guess kind of nudging at them
62
00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:45,000
in their brain.
And then say over Christmas or
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over an Easter, they go, you
know what, I'm going to take
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that leap now.
I've been in the industry.
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I've got this idea.
I think now is the time to do
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it.
And so they come in to us and we
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we have a couple of meetings and
then we might recommend them
68
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joining the program.
And then they pitch the idea to
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a panel of our advisors and our
mentors.
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We might invite them to come
onto the program then.
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So we see, we see sometimes the
journey of an undergraduate and
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as they graduate, then they
might want to join the program.
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00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:19,480
Or sometimes people have heard
of us through careers offices or
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00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:22,000
just from friends and family,
and they can come onto the
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00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:25,000
program too.
Yeah, it's just really
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interesting.
Just it really excites me that
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00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:32,400
university kind of start up
scene and find out how it works,
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00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:34,360
because I've seen a lot of great
serfs coming from, from
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00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:38,960
universities and I regret myself
not having taken that
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00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:43,960
opportunity at the time.
But it's good to hear a lot of a
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lot of students are.
And how has UCC helped startups
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00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:50,840
with how to fund their their
journey?
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00:04:50,840 --> 00:04:54,320
How have they opened that part
of the journey for startups?
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00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:58,000
So there's there's, there's a
couple of things actually.
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00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:03,920
So 1 is we have two programs
during the year for, for
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00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:07,480
existing students on the grads
and post grads called Startup
87
00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:08,920
Lab.
And at the end of startup Lab,
88
00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:12,000
we actually have prize money to
help you with your startup idea.
89
00:05:13,840 --> 00:05:17,480
So there's Dash.
Then there's also we run a
90
00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:22,200
student award program.
So there's 10 to €15,000 in
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prize money for, again, best
idea, best start up idea.
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00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:29,760
So you get funding that way.
We encourage people then to
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apply for the Enterprise Ireland
Student Startup Awards as well.
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That can be another way of
funding it.
95
00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:41,520
We also encourage people to get
their idea and get selling.
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00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:44,880
So the most important thing
really for a startup is revenue.
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00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:48,200
I mean, an idea is great and
iterating out and iterating on
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00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:52,360
it is great, but it's, it's
getting funding to and then we
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00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:55,440
are supported by the local
enterprise offices here in Cork.
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00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:59,720
And so they have various funding
routes from feasibility studies
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00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:03,440
to priming grants to maybe
expansion grants.
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00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:08,400
And we work with the startups
and the local enterprise offices
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00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:10,960
to get funding that way.
And then there's additional
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00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:13,960
funding from, say, Angel
investors, and we work with
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00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:18,920
them.
And there are then private
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00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:21,000
investors that come to our
events, like the showcase that
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00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:24,920
we're having this week.
And then sometimes some of the
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00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:27,840
people that have been on the
Ignite program end up becoming
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high potential startups with
Enterprise Ireland.
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00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:34,560
So an example recently would be
Dura Bell America.
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00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:36,120
Sullivan was on the date
program.
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00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:38,680
He was a postgraduate doing a
PhD.
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00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:44,160
The idea came from there,
finished postgraduate, finished
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00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:47,960
a PhD, came to Ignite, worked
with Ignite, got various funding
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00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:51,120
routes there and eventually then
worked with Enterprise Ireland.
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00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:53,840
So there is, I guess, a lot of
funding routes.
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00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:58,120
And also we really encourage
students and startups to just
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00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:01,840
enter all the various startup
competitions that are out there.
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00:07:01,840 --> 00:07:05,800
There's loads there and these
can be all nice little bits of
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00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:08,240
money to keep you going and keep
you motivated.
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00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:11,400
And it's also good if you don't
win the prize.
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00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:14,440
It's a very good way of
networking and you can find
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partners, customers or potential
investors there.
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00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:22,480
Yeah, I I really like that.
I think it's great to introduce
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00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:27,160
uh, students and uh, founders to
local offices, enterprise
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00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:29,160
relevant and diverse mechanisms
and grants there.
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00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:31,640
But I think there is, there is a
really kind of unique
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00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:35,200
opportunity, uh, for students to
look at those, umm, or say those
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00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:38,320
kind of hackathons and those,
uh, prizes and the kind of
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00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:42,080
those, uh, targeted, umm, grants
and loans for them as well,
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00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:43,760
which uh, only they can avail
of.
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00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:46,720
Uh, but I think it's, there's a
lot, there's a lot of, I think
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00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:48,400
students and founders don't know
where to start.
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00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:50,680
So I think UCC is really kind of
sounds like they're really
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00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:53,760
filling that kind of gap of
educate and showing them where
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00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:56,280
to go.
We do, we actually give specific
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00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:59,720
kind of other seminars and
modules and all the ways that
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00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:02,680
you can get money for your start
up idea.
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00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:06,680
And we we have a fantastic bunch
of students at the moment that
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00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:08,720
as you said are going to the
hackathons, they're going to the
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00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:10,960
Hackathon Europe.
They've been winning
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00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:16,960
competitions locally in Cork, in
Ireland and in Europe as well.
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00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:21,280
And there's there's something I
think has changed in the past
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00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:23,560
couple of years.
I do think it's the influence of
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00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:26,160
maybe quarter Dojo and other
programs that we're actually
146
00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:29,960
seeing the effects of that now
where students are coming in and
147
00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:33,640
they have that start mentality
even before they come to UCC.
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00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:36,159
And so they have a running
start.
149
00:08:36,159 --> 00:08:38,799
And so we've seen first years
doing very well at the moment in
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00:08:38,799 --> 00:08:43,440
second years and that starts to
feed into Ignite as well.
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00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:47,760
So there's, there's a lot of
stuff happening and I think
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00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:50,000
there's a lot of students taking
that leap and just trying stuff
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out.
And so it's, it's probably
154
00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:57,000
easier, especially with funding
from the likes of Amazon and
155
00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:01,120
other companies as well and say
Claude where you give them
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00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:05,800
tokens or giving hosting.
So it's much easier to become a
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00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:09,640
startup and then just pitch and
win all those prizes.
158
00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:13,560
Yeah, I've seen, you know,
companies get more involved, but
159
00:09:13,560 --> 00:09:15,720
it is great like it seems like
the founders getting younger and
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00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:18,600
younger and the other starting
earlier and there's a much more
161
00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:21,680
kind of a entrepreneurship
driven culture I think that's
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00:09:21,680 --> 00:09:23,880
happening at.
But you know, UCC is no small
163
00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:26,360
part of that to to be pushing
that forward.
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00:09:26,680 --> 00:09:30,680
And I suppose more generally,
Damon, what is the best way to
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00:09:30,680 --> 00:09:32,320
fund a startup sharing in your
opinion?
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00:09:35,560 --> 00:09:40,640
For me, I think it's it's
bootstrapping, it's seeing all
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00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:43,480
the resources out there and use
as much as possible.
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00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:47,480
Say for example, Ignite, when
someone starts in the program,
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00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:50,560
there's a stipend is when you
start off, there's a stipend
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00:09:50,560 --> 00:09:55,280
sale of €5000 to to help you.
You've got desk space as well in
171
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UCC.
So you're not paying rent,
172
00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:01,520
you're not paying electricity.
You've got your, your free
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00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:06,400
Internet connection and UCC,
Bing University has really good
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00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:11,560
Internet connections.
So all those small little costs,
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I guess are out of the way.
And then we do encourage as
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quickly as possible to get
paying customers because that
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validates you.
It gets you used to dealing with
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money and expenses.
We, we give workshops and
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00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:28,760
seminars around financial
projections and looking after
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your money.
And when we then put you in
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00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:37,800
front of VCs or investors, they
can see that you're earning
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money and you couldn't, you can
actually make money.
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00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:43,960
And then the local enterprise
offices as well, like that whole
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idea that you can actually
generate revenue.
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00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:49,800
I mean, sometimes people have an
idea and they're working on the
186
00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:52,320
idea and they're, they're two
years into it and they're still
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00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:55,560
working on the idea.
There's a maybe a fear of
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00:10:55,560 --> 00:11:01,040
actually open armed jumping in,
seeing what's going to happen.
189
00:11:01,680 --> 00:11:05,520
But once I think you start
generating even a small bit of
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00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:07,680
revenue, like two or three
paying customers, we have
191
00:11:07,680 --> 00:11:10,400
someone on the program, they're
only on the program a couple of
192
00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:13,920
months at this stage and they've
already got paying customers and
193
00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:18,240
it's great validation for
themselves and paying customers.
194
00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:21,560
Sometimes they love startups and
they advocate strongly for you.
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00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:24,000
So some of those paying
customers get you more paying
196
00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:28,040
customers.
And once again, there's there's
197
00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:30,400
money coming in.
It becomes easier maybe for
198
00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:34,960
investors to happily give you
funding or invest in you.
199
00:11:36,680 --> 00:11:39,640
Yeah, I really agree with that.
I think and a lot of fun
200
00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:42,400
founders kind of waited for the
perfect time before they, you
201
00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:45,560
know, they want to take on
customers, they want to go to
202
00:11:45,560 --> 00:11:47,040
market.
But I think if you can get some
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00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:50,200
early customers and especially
if those customers understand
204
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that these are students or it's
a young company, it's a startup
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00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:56,640
and you know, often with these
software's, you know, the price
206
00:11:56,640 --> 00:12:00,080
point isn't allowed either.
So I think it's good to see, you
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00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:01,760
know, getting those initial
customers was good to see
208
00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:05,320
companies going to taking a bit
of a risk or even a small risk
209
00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:08,320
on these setups to support them.
And particularly if Irish
210
00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:10,120
companies can do that, I think
it's very important.
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00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:14,480
I'd agree.
And we, we've had guest speakers
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00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:19,440
in so say Becky Popova from
everywhere English and she was
213
00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:23,640
saying to our startups that use
the fact that you're a startup
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00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:27,720
and you're just starting it in a
way you, they're more forgiving,
215
00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:31,920
they're more patient with you.
And people love the underdog,
216
00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:34,040
Irish people, Irish culture
loves the underdog.
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00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:38,320
And they'll back you the back,
the small company way more.
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00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:40,520
As they said, they're more
forgiving than maybe a
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00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:42,880
professional outfit that might
have boogie software.
220
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If you have boogie software,
they'll, they're going look,
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you're, you're new, you're going
to fix it.
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That's OK.
So huge advantages of, of being
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a startup and getting something
that's not perfect, but again,
224
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done is better than perfect.
Just get it out there.
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Paying customers will, because
you're paying will give you good
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strong feedback and that helps
you out as well to make a better
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product.
And they're there in a way.
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They're advocates for you.
It's fantastic.
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Yeah, I think if more syrups can
do that, I think would be a
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00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:16,160
great thing for them.
And to look at the phone in
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00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:19,320
Teams Epidemic, what are the
best skills you've seen from new
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founders that's maybe helping
them to be successful?
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00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:27,320
I actually think it's
resilience.
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It's being able to listen.
Umm, this whole idea of getting
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out of the office, getting out
of the building is really
236
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important.
Going out and meeting people,
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being able to be curious.
Umm, what we do in Ignite is we,
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we have alumni come in every
couple of weeks and give a guest
239
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talk.
And what the alumni, they always
240
00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:55,280
say is talk to more people.
If they had their time again, it
241
00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:58,800
would be get out of the office
more, talk to more people and
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just listen and being able to
modify their idea.
243
00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:08,000
I think some people go in and
they, they have a strong idea to
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00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:10,400
have a strong idea of what the
solution is and they're not
245
00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:14,400
willing to make any changes.
But if you're open to making
246
00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:19,480
changes once you have informed
data, then that's that's the
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best quality.
It's resilience as being
248
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curious, open to other ideas and
then making those changes.
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And then speed is the other
thing.
250
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It's get it out there as I was
like, I'm probably repeating
251
00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:38,080
myself too much, but it's it's
execution of an idea and getting
252
00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:41,800
it out and then making
modifications to it.
253
00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:44,960
Oh, I think it's good.
You know, I think it's important
254
00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:47,800
to make that message clear
because I think a lot of startup
255
00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:50,320
founders, umm, they are that
they're not, they're not trying
256
00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:52,480
to, you know, as you put it,
they're kind of done as better
257
00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:53,600
than perfect.
They're trying to achieve
258
00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:56,080
perfection.
The perfection doesn't exist and
259
00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:58,160
you can end up chasing your tail
for years doing that.
260
00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:00,640
And I'm getting that, you know,
get no one speaking to nobody.
261
00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:03,360
So I think it's a very important
highlight that.
262
00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:07,440
No, we, we, we actually, we have
like a performance coach who
263
00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:11,000
actually works with say GA teams
and sports teams and works with
264
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our startups.
And it's the idea again around
265
00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:20,760
resilience and blockers.
And a big thing is just getting
266
00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:24,000
people to be, I guess, more,
more liquid in what they're
267
00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:30,320
doing and not just keeping the
original idea and not making any
268
00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:33,400
changes to it.
So we, we're always working with
269
00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:38,680
our guys through that and we, we
see almost like moments every
270
00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:41,440
now and again in the problem or
someone goes, yeah, look, I had
271
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this idea and I wasn't, I wasn't
changing my idea.
272
00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:49,640
I was not going to change.
But from listening to other
273
00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:53,280
people and just thinking about
it more, I've now moved on to a
274
00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:56,200
different space or I've pivoted
ever so slightly.
275
00:15:56,600 --> 00:16:00,920
And there's so much delight when
people have that like just I
276
00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:05,280
guess self reflection piece and
the energy that that's created
277
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as a result of that means people
start moving faster and getting
278
00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:11,680
out there again and getting
paying customers.
279
00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:16,120
Yeah, I think it's a it's a bit
of a self fulfilling prophecy.
280
00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:18,800
If you can get yourself out,
dispute to customers, get the
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00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:21,560
feedback, umm, you know, make
kind of makes you want to move
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faster and move forward and not,
uh, not start when it shows
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perfection as well.
And how can companies attract
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investors effectively, do you
think, Damien?
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This is this is the the
communications thing.
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It's it's having less than 10
sides talking about the problem,
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talking about the solution that
you're creating and talking
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about the market.
Like what investors want to know
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is OK, are you exciting the
problem?
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They probably all know the
problem.
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When you go to and go, yeah,
yeah, there is a problem.
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What is your solution?
What is unique, your unique
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solution and, and how are we
going to go around creating that
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solution?
And then how are we going to
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scale it?
So a lot of it is investors want
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to know how you think, how you
plan, how you execute and can
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they back that person And you,
you see it with, with pivots
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happening that investors will
stay with the company even if
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they change the original
solution.
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They're, they're backing people
and they're backing, I guess the
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mentality of the people or the,
the resilience that's built in,
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in those people.
So you have to be able to
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clearly explain in a single
PowerPoint slide maybe what the
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problem is, what your solution
is going to be.
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And then it's why you should
back me in particular compared
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to other people.
And that's about how well you
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understand the problem where
you're going to go to by
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creating the solution.
And then how are you going to
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make money out of it as well?
I, I, again, we go back to the,
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the money and the funding thing.
But sometimes that's where
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people let themselves down is
fantastic.
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You're creating a solution, but
where are you going to get the
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money?
Is, is someone going to pay for
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it?
How are you going to, to get
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people to pay for it?
And again, what the return for
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the investors are going to be?
Yeah, I think, I think he said
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something interesting there as
well about umm, when founders
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are, you know, they're pitching
to talk about why me or other
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people.
I think that's actually, I think
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often they give a bit of ACV
kind of, but they don't actually
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say why me or other people or
why am I the person to fix this
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problem.
I think that's umm, you know,
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showing their resilience and
showing their qualities.
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I think is, uh, is what
something investors not going to
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say enough?
Yeah.
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And it, it does come down to
communication skills.
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And sometimes it can be quite
hard for people because they
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could be quite introverted and
again, they just want to code,
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they don't want to talk to
people.
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And sometimes This is why having
a Co founder that maybe has more
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of the communication skills.
And you can, you can still be
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the CTO if you want to, but
someone in the organization
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needs to it.
And it's not like like a sharp
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salesperson or anything like
that.
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It's just someone that can
communicate things easily to
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investors.
Again, I'll talk about, say,
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Marco Sullivan from Nurbel when
he came in to talk to her stars
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recently and he talked about
having different slide decks for
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00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:25,040
different audiences.
And so for investors, it's
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clearly explaining stuff that
investors want to know about or
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say, if it's working with the
likes of Enterprise Ireland, it
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00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:34,400
could be a different slide deck,
slightly different language.
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So you, you have to in a way, I
think they call it code
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switching, where you, you speak
differently to different
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audiences.
And you need someone in a
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starter that can do that, that
can talk to the tech people,
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maybe that can talk to
investors, that can talk to
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people say like the people that
run an incubator and you can
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speak their language as well.
So being a, being a good
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communicator, I think is, is
really, really important for
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startups.
And that happens, you see, when
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some people don't do well, it's
because they're not actually,
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they're doing fantastic work,
but they're not able to expand
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it to people.
And if people yes, get it, it's
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because probably it's a
communications thing more than
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anything else.
Yeah, it's, it's kind of a sad
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reality that you could fix, you
know, a huge problem with a
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00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:20,760
great solution.
But if you can't communicate
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that to people, then no one's
going to learn about it or want
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to use it.
And before we finish up, Damian,
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if you to give one key piece of
advice to share on fun in a
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startup, what would it be?
It would be having a so there is
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00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:49,080
an opportunity in every
interaction you have with
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someone.
They might be an investor, but
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00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:52,360
they might know someone that's
an investor.
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They might be someone that can
buy into.
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SO having a pitch ready to go if
it's speaking to someone in an
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00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:03,560
like literally speaking to
someone in an elevator, for
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example, or bumped into someone.
Like I bumped into someone in a
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00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:08,280
coffee shop recently and they
were asking about the Ignite
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00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:11,720
program and they were interested
in maybe coming in and giving a
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00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:14,600
talk.
So having a pitch deck ready to
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e-mail.
So have it in a draft in like in
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00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:20,120
your e-mail account on like so
you can access on your phone you
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00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:24,120
can send on to people or having
one or two slides ready to go.
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00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:28,280
I think having that kind of
material is is my main tip is
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00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:32,760
once you make a connection send
follow up straight away with
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00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:35,560
that connection and have a slide
deck or something ready to to
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00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,480
send people.
Yeah, I think that's really good
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00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:40,760
advice.
Umm, to finish off a lot of
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00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:43,200
great advice that you gave
Damien, uh, thanks so much for
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00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:45,160
coming on.
Uh, it was a real pleasure.
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And, uh, you're obviously doing
fantastic work at ECC and, uh,
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00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,840
excited to see Errol more about
the startup start emerging from
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there.
I appreciate your time.
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00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:55,920
Thank you, Philip.
Thanks, Damien.
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Hi, Thanks for listening to this
week's episode of the Founders
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00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:04,000
and Funding podcast.
If you'd like to be a guest or
389
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:06,080
have a guest suggestion, please
get in touch.
390
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:07,120
Thank you.