Feb. 25, 2026
Ep 13 - Oscar Williams - Angel & VC Investor
In this episode of Founders and Funding, Philip speaks with Oscar Williams - VC investor, climate tech specialist and deep tech mentor. They explore funding strategies for hard tech startups, mixed capital stacks, what investors really look for in founders, and why raising capital is more like a marriage than a fling. A must-listen for founders navigating early-stage fundraising.
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Hi, welcome to the founders and
funded podcast.
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I'm your host, Philip Smith.
On the podcast, I'll be
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interviewing founders,
investors, startup advisors on
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how to fund the journey of your
startup and some tips and advice
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they have for you along the way.
This podcast is sponsored by
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Perfect Technologies.
Enjoy the episode I ask you
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Welcome to the founders and Fun
in podcast.
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Thanks a lot, Phil.
Great to be here.
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It's really it's my pleasure to
have you here, Oscar.
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Just so listeners know who's on,
could you please state your name
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and your role?
Yeah, absolutely.
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So I kind of have a few roles at
the moment, which I'm sure we'll
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dig into, but I'm Oscar
Williams.
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So I've been a VC investor,
Angel investor.
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I'm a ambassador for Climate
Connection events here as well,
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and a mentor for early stage
deep tech startups.
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Fantastic.
And to ask, how did you get into
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that?
Yeah, absolutely.
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It's been a long and winding
path, so I won't bore you with
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all of the details.
But basically for the last, my
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whole professional life, I've
kind of danced around early
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stage innovation, mainly on the
climate side of things, all the
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way from policy to corporate R&D
to academic research, start up
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work, consulting.
And the kind of golden thread
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was, I think venture is a great
space to propel innovation.
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I think innovation's a great
thing to better our societies
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and people need money.
So I went into the investing
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sides and yeah, that's kind of
the short version of it.
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Well, look, it's great that LED
you, LED you here.
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And I suppose tell me a bit more
about Climate Connection as a as
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a company.
Yeah, absolutely.
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So it's umm, one of the biggest,
uh, UK based, uh, climate
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events, kind of, uh, team, umm,
they run regular monthly kind
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of, umm, meetings between that
bring together investors, early
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stage founders and everyone
policy makers, everyone working
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in early stage primarily kind of
precede to Series A series B
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maybe and beyond sometimes, but
largely in that kind of sweet
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spot, people working in the
ecosystem brings them together.
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And the whole point is, can we
make that kind of ecosystem
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better?
They've recently kind of
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launched a connection studio,
which is not climate specific as
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well, which kind of takes it
beyond that and helps founders
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basically get good stuff done.
So yeah, definitely check it
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out.
Absolutely.
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That sounds, that sounds very
cool actually.
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And and what does an average day
look like right now?
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Yeah, I mean, the pithy answer
to that is there is no average
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day.
I think in anything that kind of
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involves early stage deep tech,
average day is a bit of a myth
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and I like it that way.
But currently right now for me,
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I'm doing quite a few different
roles.
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So I kind of mentioned I'm doing
a bit of investing, I'm doing
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freelance kind of consulting,
I'm setting up an advisory with
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a couple of my mates to help
early stage founders, and I'm
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doing this ambassador role for
Climate Connection.
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So really I set my own structure
most days, you know, might
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include speaking to a founder.
That's what I love to do.
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I love writing.
So I also carve out a writing
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block and they'll be the kind of
the usual habitual things that
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we will try and do, you know,
exercise, spend time with loved
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ones, all of that stuff.
But it's kind of all around what
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can I be putting my energy into
to help early stage investors on
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that day?
Whether that's a consulting gig,
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whether that's a mentoring gig
that I do off my back, whether
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it's helping map out non
dilutive funding for climate
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connection, that's what I'm
doing right now with that.
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It's so across the board.
It's all sorts of things,
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really.
Yeah, but that's part of it is
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just trying to the different
ways you can showcase your
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expertise and how different ways
you can help people.
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Are you looking at that?
So I know you're the mentor of
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the University of Oxford as
well.
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Yeah, that's right.
Yeah, Yeah.
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With the the kind of newly set
up climate ventures cohort that
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they've got there, which is
recently come to a close,
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actually their first sort of
cohort.
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So, yeah, it's been a lot of fun
to be part of that and help kind
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of give back to the community a
little bit and feed into this
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beautiful flywheel of venture
ecosystem that we have.
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Yeah, that I really like that,
especially those, you know, the,
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the, the students starting that,
that your journey and how much
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you can shape how that goes for
them.
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And you're an investor as well
with the Hustle Fund.
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Yeah, that's right.
Yeah.
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So the Hustle funds, yeah,
that's, they've ran kind of
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great sort of transparent
cohorts that lets people with
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minimal investment often a kind
of look into their VC process.
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So I've been there as an Angel
investor and a kind of observer
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for a few years now.
I kind of used it as one of the
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springboards to get into venture
capital investing and to learn
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about it, and I've stayed kind
of a member as part of that.
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So, yeah, they're American
based, but they have a great
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process.
They get involved with some
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really good investments.
It's a bit broader than kind of
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the climate tech and deep tech
things that I usually focus on,
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but it's, yeah, really kind of
vibrant community and an
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excellent initiative that they
set up there.
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Yeah.
It's really interesting to look
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at the invest, you know, kind of
earlier the proceed even which
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is, which is very, very
interesting to me.
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And I suppose looking at some of
the, you know, could you talk to
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me about some of the startups
you've invested in and why you
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invested into those startups?
Yeah.
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So I'll kind of focus on the
climate hard tech kind of niche
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that I've found myself in.
And probably the best lens to
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look at after is the most recent
VC fund that I was with, which
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is Visionaries tomorrow.
So short headline about them.
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They are early stage, so precede
and seed Berlin based industrial
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deep tech fund.
So primarily do hardware, but
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they also do a little bit of
software.
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So yeah, a couple of kind of
interesting ones that I can run
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you past.
I think one of the biggest
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tickets that they've done and
one of the kind of most high
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profile tickets that they've
done is Proxima Fusion.
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So they're basically Europe's
shot at a sovereign fusion
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fusion champion for clean energy
generation.
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I mean, I've always thought
fusion is cool.
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It's basically free energy or if
you get it working at commercial
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scale and that's super kind of
attractive.
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But they have a real kind of
amazing combination of Max
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Planck Institute.
So this kind of hundreds of
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years old research institution
with decades of stellarator
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heritage.
So stellarator is the type of
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kind of technology that they use
to produce the fusion and to
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kind of magnetically confine the
plasma and a really kind of
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robust commercial road map from
simulation to hardware and a
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strong view of kind of fusion as
a base load infrastructure to
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plug into real industrial loads.
So it's kind of making this
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fantastical, amazing vision and
dream of fusion much more
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tangible and kind of risk
mitigated as we go.
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So it's it's kind of yeah, that
really appealed to me.
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Another one.
Oh yeah.
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I don't know if you want me to
carry on, but I can talk about a
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couple of others if you want.
Oh, please do.
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Amazing, amazing.
So yeah.
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And then less energy specific,
but energy adjacent hour ago was
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another one.
It's basically optical
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computing.
So that's looking at this kind
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of trend of Moore's law reaching
it's kind of thermodynamic
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limits of electric kind of
transistors getting smaller and
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smaller year on year.
That's going to keep going for a
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while, but it will hit a limit
and that is based on kind of
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noise that's at the sort of
almost quantum level and that
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will kind of produce a physical
limit on electronics.
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So one way to get around this,
there are quite a few different
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potential ways is can we use
light instead of electricity?
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So we've all heard about AI and
the kind of the kind of
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inference kind of computations
that they need to do.
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And that's just exponentially
increasing like crazy.
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And we know about the energy
drain on that as well.
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And as we need to do ever more
kind of complex matrix
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multiplications, which is the
kind of primary computation that
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underpins that type of work that
they do, we'll need smaller and
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smaller kit and we'll need to be
more and more energy efficient.
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So light is 1 potential way to
do that.
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And again, ergo have an
incredible team.
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And basically light does the
linear, linear algebra
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essentially for free in terms of
latency and energy, not quite
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for free, but much cheaper in
terms of energy wastage than
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electronics.
So another kind of moon shot
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that sounds like it should be in
a sci-fi film.
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Yeah.
But they also again have clear
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roots kind of commercialization
and it's and it's amazing, you
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know, just for reference, we
already do some things in
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optical like so fibre optics, we
all know about that.
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That's what probably brings your
broadband to your house that's
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transmitted with light.
And this is kind of the next
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evolution of that, doing
computation within light, so
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within the optical domain, as
they call it.
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So, yeah, those are the kind of
bets that I really like.
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Big, bold, beautiful.
I think that's what venture
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capital should be about.
It's kind of how do we move that
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needle?
How do we get returns that seem
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outrageously outsized compared
to what we put into it?
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So yeah, bring on the future.
Yeah, but that's what's exciting
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about, you know,
entrepreneurship on that
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approach, you play this like you
want to see startups that can
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change the world and change
people's lives.
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You know, that that's what makes
it so exciting.
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And on the investment side, you
want to be able to invest and
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startup has so much potential
that there are wise, you know,
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crazy or seems, you know,
insane.
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That's, you know, that's, I
think you're in a really good
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space and industry to to achieve
both of those things and to look
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at, you know, you know, I
suppose a bit broader than
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Oscar.
What is the best way to fund a
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startup's journey in your
opinion?
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Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, I think it's a great
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question.
I mean most recently I've been
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with VC, but I've been in quite
a few different roles throughout
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my kind of decade long, so also
career.
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So I've seen quite a lot of
areas of innovation kind of
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funding.
And I would say while VC can be
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great, it's it is a tool and I
always kind of try and look at
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it from the founder, the people
you know, who are actually
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building the stuff, doing the
good work.
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I would say it's a tool, not a
religion.
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So especially when I'm looking
at deep tech and hard tech, the
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right funding stack really
depends on the type of risk that
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you're looking at the product
cycle that you're doing.
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So for things like I mentioned
like fusion or like advanced
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manufacturing water materials,
you really want a mixed capital
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capital stack.
I wouldn't say that VC is the
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only answer and it might be a
part of the answer.
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It might not be a part of the
answer depending on the stage
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that you're at.
What you also want to want to
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involve in the mix are non
dilutive grants.
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So currently with my volunteer
work with the Climate Connection
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as an ambassador, we're mapping
out UK kind of non dilutive
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grants and seeing what's out
there and helping to kind of
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make sense of the different
governmental structures that we
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have and how innovation can get
money.
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But there's also other kind of
ways like working with
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corporates to develop contracts
and joint ventures, strategic
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kind of piloting kind of
endeavours with those sort of
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type of corporations.
And yeah, really with
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institutional VC, I would say to
a founder, you need to make sure
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that there's a line of sight to
kind of repeatable deployments.
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And that's kind of this
recurring revenue that VCs kind
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of look for.
And I can speak more about that.
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But on the climate kind of side
of things, we're seeing more
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infrastructure kind of shaped
models and kind of what I mean
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by that is can you basically act
as like an independent power
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provider IPP style?
That's kind of yes, yeah, like
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vehicles for heat, water storage
or process upgrades.
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So like basically you have like
a special purpose vehicle of
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funding for a project that rages
raises like project finance that
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pays the start up like via long
term offtake or equipment leases
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and things like that.
We're seeing more and more of
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these kind of more inventive
ways to get around the valley of
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death for like hardware kind of.
And how do you mitigate those
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guests, those kind of risks
earlier and kind of secure these
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kind of lines to more long term
funding, which then future
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funding backers like banks and
things like that will see as
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very positive signals?
Obviously, if we look at the
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software side of things, that's
quite different.
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But I guess my kind of niche is
usually on the hardware type of
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things.
So yeah, it's super exciting.
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And I, I think we'll see a lot
of very interesting different
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funding vehicles emerging as we
move forwards and I think that's
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a great thing.
Yeah, like it's certainly it's
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still such a change in space and
there are all those different,
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there's so many options now to
get fun.
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And as as you mentioned, I think
particularly interesting there
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was was orchestrating kind of
joint ventures and partnerships
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and pilots.
I think that's a really great
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thing because it gives companies
a chance to, you know, actually,
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you know, secure their first
clients in revenue, but be able
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to put it out into the field
and, and show your customers
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what their product can do, which
is really important to look at
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the founding team a bit.
Then are there certain skills
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you you think founders should
possess?
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Or, you know, like what?
What do you look for in founders
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that would make you want to
invest in their startup?
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Yeah, I love, I mean, I spend a
lot of time thinking about this.
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And obviously, especially with
early stage venture, when you're
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investing into that, you're
investing into the people, the
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idea might change quite a few
different times.
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Ideally, they will pivot and
they will listen to the market.
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I mean, of course, yeah, it'd be
great if you could get the
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perfect idea from the beginning,
but it's so rare that that
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happens.
So, yeah, I mean, I think there
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are a few traits that I kind of
overweight usually I guess when
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I look at deep tech specifically
and kind of maybe an overarching
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sort of lens that I try and look
at it through.
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So the baseline for that would
be technical credibility.
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So and then the differentiator
is translation.
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So the founders who stand out
for me can move fluently between
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whiteboard equations, getting
really technical nitty gritty,
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talking about plant manager kind
of constraints and things like
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that, and then moving into
investor economics, you know,
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without breaking a sweat and
making it all sound like a kind
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of coherent narrative.
We often positioned ourselves
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previously as like tech
translators, as VCs because we
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had technical mindsets that we
could help founders translate
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their ideas into more investment
friendly kind of language that
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makes sense for people.
For example, I think founders
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who can tell that narrative,
that's always a great signal.
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And then yeah, in terms of maybe
more specific kind of traits
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that I look at, I think this is
good for any type of founder
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intellectual honesty.
So how clearly do they talk
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about unknowns and failure
modes?
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Because it'll be complete BS if
we all, if we all think that we
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have all the answers from the
offset.
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And yeah, I mean, I think it's
easy to fall into that trap
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because you want to make a
perfect slide deck that it has
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your route to 1 trillion, you
know, Tam or whatever it is.
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And that's just not how it works
for me in reality.
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If you can talk about here are
we, here's where we expect to
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fail, here are what we don't
know, and here's how we're going
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to figure that out and mitigate
those risks as we go.
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I think that's so much better
than selling me ABS narrative
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00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:33,000
basically.
Yeah, that's a really good
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point.
Like I think, you know, that's a
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00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:39,560
really, really strong piece of
advice I think for instead of
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founders.
And when they pitch, because
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00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:43,640
they do, they do paint this kind
of perfect world and perfect
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picture where and you know and
they know and the investor knows
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that that's not the case.
And if you think you understand
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the challenges, how to
circumvent them, I think that's
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a lot more attractive.
And from the start up side, how
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can those companies attract
investors more effectively?
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Yeah.
And I would just to add to your
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previous point as well, add to
that kind of point we just
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discussed as well, which feeds
into this.
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It does depend on the type of
investor you're looking, you're
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kind of speaking to.
So I'm coming with a technical
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mindset and I have to, I have to
caveat what I've said with that
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because I know what it's like to
make stuff.
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I know what it's like to spend
90% of my PhD fixing broken lab
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equipment.
And I know how that translates
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into commercial as well.
You know, it doesn't the
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00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:39,160
problems don't go away.
But yeah, you know, so, yeah,
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00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:42,120
just to make sure that that's
clear, because for some
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00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:47,400
investors, you do want to lean
into the BSA little bit more.
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But yeah, that, that varies.
So there's a balance to to go
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00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:55,560
for, but yeah.
So how can companies attract
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investors more effectively?
Just returning to that, I would
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00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:04,360
say that the most effective
fundraising that I've seen from
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00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:09,600
thousands of companies that I've
looked at, it's less like a
321
00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:12,720
roadshow and more like a gravity
well, if that makes sense.
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So a company that's obviously
doing the work, they have some
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00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:20,120
traction, whether that's these
joint ventures that we've talked
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00:19:20,120 --> 00:19:23,120
about, whether it's pilots
running, whether it's letters of
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00:19:23,120 --> 00:19:26,720
intent, regulatory conversations
in progress.
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00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:31,160
They are kind of creating an
ecosystem that makes them
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00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:37,760
indispensable within that space,
that attracts investors and that
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00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:43,840
attracts attention and it is
super exciting at that point.
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00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:47,840
So of course, you know, things
like networks really matter.
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00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:49,720
Warming and Audreys matter, of
course.
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00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:52,920
But I would say the strongest
signal isn't how many investors
332
00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:55,600
you've met.
It's like, how can you turn
333
00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:57,920
those conversations into sharper
hypotheses?
334
00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:01,040
How can you use everything that
you're doing as part of your
335
00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:04,600
process to improve on your
business model, on your idea?
336
00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:06,480
So.
If I have a chat with the
337
00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:09,120
founder and we have some pain
points that we discuss or
338
00:20:09,120 --> 00:20:12,840
whatever, and then the next
meeting we have, there's been no
339
00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:14,320
change to the deck or the road
map.
340
00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:17,440
I'm not going to say that I have
all the answers, but I will say
341
00:20:18,120 --> 00:20:20,040
why.
If we were kind of all nodding
342
00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:22,920
and agreeing and saying all
these are issues, why hasn't
343
00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:25,040
anything changed?
So it's kind of that coach
344
00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:30,520
ability side of things, I think.
Yeah, being open to speak and
345
00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:33,800
realizing that it's a
partnership that's a long term
346
00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:36,840
kind of investment from both
sides.
347
00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:40,280
It's a marriage, right?
It's yeah, yeah, yeah.
348
00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:46,200
Not to kind of speak too much in
cliches, but yeah, it's yeah,
349
00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:49,720
it's kind of having that
holistic view and trying not to
350
00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:55,120
see, trying to make funding work
for you and that process work
351
00:20:55,120 --> 00:20:57,520
for you and better your kind of
whole journey.
352
00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:00,440
I think that's a really
effective way of doing it and
353
00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:04,080
much more effective than kind of
just seeing fundraising as like
354
00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:07,560
a time sink which doesn't add
any value, which it's very easy
355
00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:08,640
to see it like that.
I get it.
356
00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:13,960
Yeah, Yeah.
I think that you've probably
357
00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:16,440
probably answer my next question
ask in terms of what, like what,
358
00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:19,400
what what is one key piece of
advice to share and fund a
359
00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:21,800
startup?
Yeah, absolutely.
360
00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:25,560
Yeah.
So yeah, I would say yeah, it's
361
00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:26,960
kind of bats that marriage
point.
362
00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:28,720
It's, it's a marriage, not a
fling.
363
00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:33,880
So it's long term relationships
and gains and like who do you
364
00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:38,400
want to kind of enter a marriage
with?
365
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:40,960
Like, So what does that BC bring
to the table for you?
366
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:45,320
It's, it's very difficult when
there are of course there isn't
367
00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:51,600
really a symmetrical system
here, right, where there are a
368
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:55,200
lot more startups looking for
money and the VCs kind of have
369
00:21:55,200 --> 00:22:02,320
that power, but you want
partners who will not abuse that
370
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:06,640
kind of power dynamic and they
will bring things to the table
371
00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:11,280
for you as well.
I would say returning to our
372
00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:14,400
mixed capital stack where we're
talking about grants and JVS and
373
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:17,560
other kind of structures as
well, make VC compete with other
374
00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:20,560
capital.
If you can say that VC brings
375
00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:24,000
you something tangible to your
kind of system.
376
00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:27,440
If all you need is money and
that's also understandable, but
377
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:30,600
do it with eyes wide open
because it's easy to jump into
378
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:32,560
bed with someone.
It's a very different matter
379
00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:35,760
kind of entering into a long
term marriage, right.
380
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:40,480
Not to overuse that kind of
metaphor too much, but yeah,
381
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,680
yeah.
So I'd see I'd say treat treat
382
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:47,480
fundraising as an architecture,
not as just a single one off
383
00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:51,840
event.
Yeah, I think that's a good
384
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:53,760
finisher for a lot of really
good advice.
385
00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:57,160
Like it's it certainly is that
the cliche isn't wrong.
386
00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:58,360
Like it certainly is like a
marriage.
387
00:22:58,360 --> 00:23:02,080
And I think so many founders to
kind of rush into it for, you
388
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:04,560
know, the money rather than, you
know, all the other things that
389
00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:07,240
go that like the the character
and investor or the industry
390
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:09,440
they're in, what expertise they
can share and so on.
391
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:13,240
So there's a lot more to it.
And Oscar, thanks so much for
392
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:15,280
coming to the podcast.
That was a really nice
393
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:17,720
conversation.
You shared a lot there, I think,
394
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:21,560
and obviously with the cloudy
tech industry, but I think even
395
00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:25,160
brought a lot for founders and
investors even to take away.
396
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:27,960
Thanks a lot, Phil Yeah, it was
a real pleasure.
397
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:31,520
And yeah, hopefully it's a bit
of help for people.
398
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:36,080
Would love people to reach out
and always happy to chat and
399
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:38,520
share more ideas as well.
But yeah, thanks again for
400
00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:40,320
inviting me along.
Cheers.
401
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:44,680
Thanks, Oscar.
Hi, thanks for listening to this
402
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:47,560
weeks episode of the Founders
and Funding podcast.
403
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:50,240
If you'd like to be a guest or
have a guest suggestion, please
404
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:52,040
get in touch.
Thank you.
00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:03,440
Hi, welcome to the founders and
funded podcast.
2
00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:06,040
I'm your host, Philip Smith.
On the podcast, I'll be
3
00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:09,360
interviewing founders,
investors, startup advisors on
4
00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:13,480
how to fund the journey of your
startup and some tips and advice
5
00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:17,160
they have for you along the way.
This podcast is sponsored by
6
00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:23,240
Perfect Technologies.
Enjoy the episode I ask you
7
00:00:23,240 --> 00:00:25,280
Welcome to the founders and Fun
in podcast.
8
00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:28,160
Thanks a lot, Phil.
Great to be here.
9
00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:31,680
It's really it's my pleasure to
have you here, Oscar.
10
00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:34,040
Just so listeners know who's on,
could you please state your name
11
00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:36,600
and your role?
Yeah, absolutely.
12
00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:39,960
So I kind of have a few roles at
the moment, which I'm sure we'll
13
00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:42,080
dig into, but I'm Oscar
Williams.
14
00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:45,760
So I've been a VC investor,
Angel investor.
15
00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:50,480
I'm a ambassador for Climate
Connection events here as well,
16
00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:53,640
and a mentor for early stage
deep tech startups.
17
00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:57,640
Fantastic.
And to ask, how did you get into
18
00:00:57,640 --> 00:00:59,760
that?
Yeah, absolutely.
19
00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:03,160
It's been a long and winding
path, so I won't bore you with
20
00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:07,480
all of the details.
But basically for the last, my
21
00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:10,560
whole professional life, I've
kind of danced around early
22
00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:15,000
stage innovation, mainly on the
climate side of things, all the
23
00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:21,200
way from policy to corporate R&D
to academic research, start up
24
00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:24,640
work, consulting.
And the kind of golden thread
25
00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:29,320
was, I think venture is a great
space to propel innovation.
26
00:01:29,320 --> 00:01:33,400
I think innovation's a great
thing to better our societies
27
00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:37,920
and people need money.
So I went into the investing
28
00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:44,360
sides and yeah, that's kind of
the short version of it.
29
00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:48,480
Well, look, it's great that LED
you, LED you here.
30
00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:52,400
And I suppose tell me a bit more
about Climate Connection as a as
31
00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:54,680
a company.
Yeah, absolutely.
32
00:01:54,680 --> 00:02:01,840
So it's umm, one of the biggest,
uh, UK based, uh, climate
33
00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:07,080
events, kind of, uh, team, umm,
they run regular monthly kind
34
00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:11,320
of, umm, meetings between that
bring together investors, early
35
00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:16,320
stage founders and everyone
policy makers, everyone working
36
00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:21,440
in early stage primarily kind of
precede to Series A series B
37
00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:25,440
maybe and beyond sometimes, but
largely in that kind of sweet
38
00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:29,360
spot, people working in the
ecosystem brings them together.
39
00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:32,400
And the whole point is, can we
make that kind of ecosystem
40
00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:35,040
better?
They've recently kind of
41
00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:40,040
launched a connection studio,
which is not climate specific as
42
00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:43,440
well, which kind of takes it
beyond that and helps founders
43
00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:47,400
basically get good stuff done.
So yeah, definitely check it
44
00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:49,240
out.
Absolutely.
45
00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:50,840
That sounds, that sounds very
cool actually.
46
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And and what does an average day
look like right now?
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Yeah, I mean, the pithy answer
to that is there is no average
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day.
I think in anything that kind of
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involves early stage deep tech,
average day is a bit of a myth
50
00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:10,320
and I like it that way.
But currently right now for me,
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I'm doing quite a few different
roles.
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So I kind of mentioned I'm doing
a bit of investing, I'm doing
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freelance kind of consulting,
I'm setting up an advisory with
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a couple of my mates to help
early stage founders, and I'm
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doing this ambassador role for
Climate Connection.
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So really I set my own structure
most days, you know, might
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include speaking to a founder.
That's what I love to do.
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I love writing.
So I also carve out a writing
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block and they'll be the kind of
the usual habitual things that
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we will try and do, you know,
exercise, spend time with loved
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ones, all of that stuff.
But it's kind of all around what
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can I be putting my energy into
to help early stage investors on
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that day?
Whether that's a consulting gig,
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whether that's a mentoring gig
that I do off my back, whether
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00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:02,960
it's helping map out non
dilutive funding for climate
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connection, that's what I'm
doing right now with that.
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It's so across the board.
It's all sorts of things,
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really.
Yeah, but that's part of it is
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just trying to the different
ways you can showcase your
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expertise and how different ways
you can help people.
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Are you looking at that?
So I know you're the mentor of
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the University of Oxford as
well.
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Yeah, that's right.
Yeah, Yeah.
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With the the kind of newly set
up climate ventures cohort that
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they've got there, which is
recently come to a close,
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actually their first sort of
cohort.
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So, yeah, it's been a lot of fun
to be part of that and help kind
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of give back to the community a
little bit and feed into this
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beautiful flywheel of venture
ecosystem that we have.
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Yeah, that I really like that,
especially those, you know, the,
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the, the students starting that,
that your journey and how much
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you can shape how that goes for
them.
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And you're an investor as well
with the Hustle Fund.
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00:04:58,560 --> 00:04:59,640
Yeah, that's right.
Yeah.
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So the Hustle funds, yeah,
that's, they've ran kind of
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00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:09,960
great sort of transparent
cohorts that lets people with
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00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:15,320
minimal investment often a kind
of look into their VC process.
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00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:18,880
So I've been there as an Angel
investor and a kind of observer
89
00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:22,640
for a few years now.
I kind of used it as one of the
90
00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:26,200
springboards to get into venture
capital investing and to learn
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00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:31,000
about it, and I've stayed kind
of a member as part of that.
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00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:34,160
So, yeah, they're American
based, but they have a great
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process.
They get involved with some
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really good investments.
It's a bit broader than kind of
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the climate tech and deep tech
things that I usually focus on,
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00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:48,000
but it's, yeah, really kind of
vibrant community and an
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excellent initiative that they
set up there.
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00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:52,360
Yeah.
It's really interesting to look
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00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:56,160
at the invest, you know, kind of
earlier the proceed even which
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is, which is very, very
interesting to me.
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00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:01,760
And I suppose looking at some of
the, you know, could you talk to
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me about some of the startups
you've invested in and why you
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invested into those startups?
Yeah.
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So I'll kind of focus on the
climate hard tech kind of niche
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that I've found myself in.
And probably the best lens to
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look at after is the most recent
VC fund that I was with, which
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is Visionaries tomorrow.
So short headline about them.
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They are early stage, so precede
and seed Berlin based industrial
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deep tech fund.
So primarily do hardware, but
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they also do a little bit of
software.
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So yeah, a couple of kind of
interesting ones that I can run
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you past.
I think one of the biggest
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tickets that they've done and
one of the kind of most high
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profile tickets that they've
done is Proxima Fusion.
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00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:53,560
So they're basically Europe's
shot at a sovereign fusion
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00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:56,640
fusion champion for clean energy
generation.
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00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:00,480
I mean, I've always thought
fusion is cool.
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It's basically free energy or if
you get it working at commercial
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scale and that's super kind of
attractive.
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But they have a real kind of
amazing combination of Max
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Planck Institute.
So this kind of hundreds of
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years old research institution
with decades of stellarator
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heritage.
So stellarator is the type of
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kind of technology that they use
to produce the fusion and to
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kind of magnetically confine the
plasma and a really kind of
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robust commercial road map from
simulation to hardware and a
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strong view of kind of fusion as
a base load infrastructure to
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plug into real industrial loads.
So it's kind of making this
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fantastical, amazing vision and
dream of fusion much more
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tangible and kind of risk
mitigated as we go.
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So it's it's kind of yeah, that
really appealed to me.
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Another one.
Oh yeah.
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I don't know if you want me to
carry on, but I can talk about a
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couple of others if you want.
Oh, please do.
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Amazing, amazing.
So yeah.
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And then less energy specific,
but energy adjacent hour ago was
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another one.
It's basically optical
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computing.
So that's looking at this kind
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of trend of Moore's law reaching
it's kind of thermodynamic
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limits of electric kind of
transistors getting smaller and
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smaller year on year.
That's going to keep going for a
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while, but it will hit a limit
and that is based on kind of
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noise that's at the sort of
almost quantum level and that
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will kind of produce a physical
limit on electronics.
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So one way to get around this,
there are quite a few different
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potential ways is can we use
light instead of electricity?
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So we've all heard about AI and
the kind of the kind of
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inference kind of computations
that they need to do.
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And that's just exponentially
increasing like crazy.
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And we know about the energy
drain on that as well.
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And as we need to do ever more
kind of complex matrix
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multiplications, which is the
kind of primary computation that
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underpins that type of work that
they do, we'll need smaller and
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smaller kit and we'll need to be
more and more energy efficient.
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So light is 1 potential way to
do that.
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And again, ergo have an
incredible team.
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And basically light does the
linear, linear algebra
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essentially for free in terms of
latency and energy, not quite
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for free, but much cheaper in
terms of energy wastage than
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electronics.
So another kind of moon shot
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that sounds like it should be in
a sci-fi film.
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00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:50,440
Yeah.
But they also again have clear
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roots kind of commercialization
and it's and it's amazing, you
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know, just for reference, we
already do some things in
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optical like so fibre optics, we
all know about that.
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That's what probably brings your
broadband to your house that's
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transmitted with light.
And this is kind of the next
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evolution of that, doing
computation within light, so
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within the optical domain, as
they call it.
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So, yeah, those are the kind of
bets that I really like.
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Big, bold, beautiful.
I think that's what venture
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capital should be about.
It's kind of how do we move that
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needle?
How do we get returns that seem
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outrageously outsized compared
to what we put into it?
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So yeah, bring on the future.
Yeah, but that's what's exciting
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about, you know,
entrepreneurship on that
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approach, you play this like you
want to see startups that can
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change the world and change
people's lives.
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00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:47,280
You know, that that's what makes
it so exciting.
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And on the investment side, you
want to be able to invest and
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startup has so much potential
that there are wise, you know,
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crazy or seems, you know,
insane.
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That's, you know, that's, I
think you're in a really good
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space and industry to to achieve
both of those things and to look
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at, you know, you know, I
suppose a bit broader than
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Oscar.
What is the best way to fund a
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startup's journey in your
opinion?
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00:11:10,680 --> 00:11:12,720
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, I think it's a great
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question.
I mean most recently I've been
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with VC, but I've been in quite
a few different roles throughout
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00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:23,960
my kind of decade long, so also
career.
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00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:28,680
So I've seen quite a lot of
areas of innovation kind of
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funding.
And I would say while VC can be
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great, it's it is a tool and I
always kind of try and look at
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it from the founder, the people
you know, who are actually
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building the stuff, doing the
good work.
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I would say it's a tool, not a
religion.
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00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:48,040
So especially when I'm looking
at deep tech and hard tech, the
199
00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:51,440
right funding stack really
depends on the type of risk that
200
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you're looking at the product
cycle that you're doing.
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00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:57,640
So for things like I mentioned
like fusion or like advanced
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00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:01,800
manufacturing water materials,
you really want a mixed capital
203
00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:08,160
capital stack.
I wouldn't say that VC is the
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only answer and it might be a
part of the answer.
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It might not be a part of the
answer depending on the stage
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that you're at.
What you also want to want to
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involve in the mix are non
dilutive grants.
208
00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:22,480
So currently with my volunteer
work with the Climate Connection
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as an ambassador, we're mapping
out UK kind of non dilutive
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grants and seeing what's out
there and helping to kind of
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make sense of the different
governmental structures that we
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have and how innovation can get
money.
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00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:38,320
But there's also other kind of
ways like working with
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corporates to develop contracts
and joint ventures, strategic
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kind of piloting kind of
endeavours with those sort of
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type of corporations.
And yeah, really with
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00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:55,440
institutional VC, I would say to
a founder, you need to make sure
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that there's a line of sight to
kind of repeatable deployments.
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00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:01,520
And that's kind of this
recurring revenue that VCs kind
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of look for.
And I can speak more about that.
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But on the climate kind of side
of things, we're seeing more
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infrastructure kind of shaped
models and kind of what I mean
223
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by that is can you basically act
as like an independent power
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provider IPP style?
That's kind of yes, yeah, like
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vehicles for heat, water storage
or process upgrades.
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So like basically you have like
a special purpose vehicle of
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funding for a project that rages
raises like project finance that
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pays the start up like via long
term offtake or equipment leases
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and things like that.
We're seeing more and more of
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these kind of more inventive
ways to get around the valley of
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death for like hardware kind of.
And how do you mitigate those
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guests, those kind of risks
earlier and kind of secure these
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kind of lines to more long term
funding, which then future
234
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funding backers like banks and
things like that will see as
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very positive signals?
Obviously, if we look at the
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software side of things, that's
quite different.
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But I guess my kind of niche is
usually on the hardware type of
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things.
So yeah, it's super exciting.
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00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:17,800
And I, I think we'll see a lot
of very interesting different
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funding vehicles emerging as we
move forwards and I think that's
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00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:24,000
a great thing.
Yeah, like it's certainly it's
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still such a change in space and
there are all those different,
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there's so many options now to
get fun.
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And as as you mentioned, I think
particularly interesting there
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was was orchestrating kind of
joint ventures and partnerships
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00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:37,040
and pilots.
I think that's a really great
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00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:40,120
thing because it gives companies
a chance to, you know, actually,
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you know, secure their first
clients in revenue, but be able
249
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to put it out into the field
and, and show your customers
250
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what their product can do, which
is really important to look at
251
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the founding team a bit.
Then are there certain skills
252
00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:56,320
you you think founders should
possess?
253
00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:58,960
Or, you know, like what?
What do you look for in founders
254
00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:02,080
that would make you want to
invest in their startup?
255
00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:05,800
Yeah, I love, I mean, I spend a
lot of time thinking about this.
256
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And obviously, especially with
early stage venture, when you're
257
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investing into that, you're
investing into the people, the
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00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:17,400
idea might change quite a few
different times.
259
00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:20,960
Ideally, they will pivot and
they will listen to the market.
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I mean, of course, yeah, it'd be
great if you could get the
261
00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:27,360
perfect idea from the beginning,
but it's so rare that that
262
00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:32,400
happens.
So, yeah, I mean, I think there
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00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:36,120
are a few traits that I kind of
overweight usually I guess when
264
00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:42,280
I look at deep tech specifically
and kind of maybe an overarching
265
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sort of lens that I try and look
at it through.
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So the baseline for that would
be technical credibility.
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So and then the differentiator
is translation.
268
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So the founders who stand out
for me can move fluently between
269
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whiteboard equations, getting
really technical nitty gritty,
270
00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:04,120
talking about plant manager kind
of constraints and things like
271
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that, and then moving into
investor economics, you know,
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without breaking a sweat and
making it all sound like a kind
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of coherent narrative.
We often positioned ourselves
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previously as like tech
translators, as VCs because we
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had technical mindsets that we
could help founders translate
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their ideas into more investment
friendly kind of language that
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makes sense for people.
For example, I think founders
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who can tell that narrative,
that's always a great signal.
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And then yeah, in terms of maybe
more specific kind of traits
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that I look at, I think this is
good for any type of founder
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intellectual honesty.
So how clearly do they talk
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about unknowns and failure
modes?
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Because it'll be complete BS if
we all, if we all think that we
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have all the answers from the
offset.
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And yeah, I mean, I think it's
easy to fall into that trap
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because you want to make a
perfect slide deck that it has
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your route to 1 trillion, you
know, Tam or whatever it is.
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And that's just not how it works
for me in reality.
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If you can talk about here are
we, here's where we expect to
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fail, here are what we don't
know, and here's how we're going
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to figure that out and mitigate
those risks as we go.
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I think that's so much better
than selling me ABS narrative
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basically.
Yeah, that's a really good
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point.
Like I think, you know, that's a
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really, really strong piece of
advice I think for instead of
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founders.
And when they pitch, because
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they do, they do paint this kind
of perfect world and perfect
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picture where and you know and
they know and the investor knows
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that that's not the case.
And if you think you understand
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the challenges, how to
circumvent them, I think that's
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a lot more attractive.
And from the start up side, how
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can those companies attract
investors more effectively?
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Yeah.
And I would just to add to your
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previous point as well, add to
that kind of point we just
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discussed as well, which feeds
into this.
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It does depend on the type of
investor you're looking, you're
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kind of speaking to.
So I'm coming with a technical
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mindset and I have to, I have to
caveat what I've said with that
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because I know what it's like to
make stuff.
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I know what it's like to spend
90% of my PhD fixing broken lab
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equipment.
And I know how that translates
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into commercial as well.
You know, it doesn't the
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problems don't go away.
But yeah, you know, so, yeah,
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just to make sure that that's
clear, because for some
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investors, you do want to lean
into the BSA little bit more.
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But yeah, that, that varies.
So there's a balance to to go
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for, but yeah.
So how can companies attract
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investors more effectively?
Just returning to that, I would
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say that the most effective
fundraising that I've seen from
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thousands of companies that I've
looked at, it's less like a
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roadshow and more like a gravity
well, if that makes sense.
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So a company that's obviously
doing the work, they have some
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traction, whether that's these
joint ventures that we've talked
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about, whether it's pilots
running, whether it's letters of
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intent, regulatory conversations
in progress.
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They are kind of creating an
ecosystem that makes them
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indispensable within that space,
that attracts investors and that
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attracts attention and it is
super exciting at that point.
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So of course, you know, things
like networks really matter.
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Warming and Audreys matter, of
course.
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But I would say the strongest
signal isn't how many investors
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you've met.
It's like, how can you turn
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those conversations into sharper
hypotheses?
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How can you use everything that
you're doing as part of your
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process to improve on your
business model, on your idea?
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So.
If I have a chat with the
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founder and we have some pain
points that we discuss or
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whatever, and then the next
meeting we have, there's been no
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change to the deck or the road
map.
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I'm not going to say that I have
all the answers, but I will say
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why.
If we were kind of all nodding
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and agreeing and saying all
these are issues, why hasn't
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anything changed?
So it's kind of that coach
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ability side of things, I think.
Yeah, being open to speak and
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realizing that it's a
partnership that's a long term
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kind of investment from both
sides.
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It's a marriage, right?
It's yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Not to kind of speak too much in
cliches, but yeah, it's yeah,
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it's kind of having that
holistic view and trying not to
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see, trying to make funding work
for you and that process work
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for you and better your kind of
whole journey.
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I think that's a really
effective way of doing it and
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much more effective than kind of
just seeing fundraising as like
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a time sink which doesn't add
any value, which it's very easy
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to see it like that.
I get it.
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00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:13,960
Yeah, Yeah.
I think that you've probably
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probably answer my next question
ask in terms of what, like what,
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what what is one key piece of
advice to share and fund a
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00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:21,800
startup?
Yeah, absolutely.
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Yeah.
So yeah, I would say yeah, it's
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kind of bats that marriage
point.
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It's, it's a marriage, not a
fling.
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So it's long term relationships
and gains and like who do you
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00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:38,400
want to kind of enter a marriage
with?
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Like, So what does that BC bring
to the table for you?
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It's, it's very difficult when
there are of course there isn't
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really a symmetrical system
here, right, where there are a
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00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:55,200
lot more startups looking for
money and the VCs kind of have
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00:21:55,200 --> 00:22:02,320
that power, but you want
partners who will not abuse that
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00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:06,640
kind of power dynamic and they
will bring things to the table
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for you as well.
I would say returning to our
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mixed capital stack where we're
talking about grants and JVS and
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other kind of structures as
well, make VC compete with other
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capital.
If you can say that VC brings
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00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:24,000
you something tangible to your
kind of system.
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If all you need is money and
that's also understandable, but
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do it with eyes wide open
because it's easy to jump into
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00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:32,560
bed with someone.
It's a very different matter
379
00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:35,760
kind of entering into a long
term marriage, right.
380
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:40,480
Not to overuse that kind of
metaphor too much, but yeah,
381
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,680
yeah.
So I'd see I'd say treat treat
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fundraising as an architecture,
not as just a single one off
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00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:51,840
event.
Yeah, I think that's a good
384
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:53,760
finisher for a lot of really
good advice.
385
00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:57,160
Like it's it certainly is that
the cliche isn't wrong.
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00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:58,360
Like it certainly is like a
marriage.
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00:22:58,360 --> 00:23:02,080
And I think so many founders to
kind of rush into it for, you
388
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:04,560
know, the money rather than, you
know, all the other things that
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00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:07,240
go that like the the character
and investor or the industry
390
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:09,440
they're in, what expertise they
can share and so on.
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So there's a lot more to it.
And Oscar, thanks so much for
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00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:15,280
coming to the podcast.
That was a really nice
393
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:17,720
conversation.
You shared a lot there, I think,
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00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:21,560
and obviously with the cloudy
tech industry, but I think even
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brought a lot for founders and
investors even to take away.
396
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:27,960
Thanks a lot, Phil Yeah, it was
a real pleasure.
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00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:31,520
And yeah, hopefully it's a bit
of help for people.
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Would love people to reach out
and always happy to chat and
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00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:38,520
share more ideas as well.
But yeah, thanks again for
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00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:40,320
inviting me along.
Cheers.
401
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:44,680
Thanks, Oscar.
Hi, thanks for listening to this
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00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:47,560
weeks episode of the Founders
and Funding podcast.
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00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:50,240
If you'd like to be a guest or
have a guest suggestion, please
404
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:52,040
get in touch.
Thank you.